“It’s important to be a sponge when you’re early in your IO psychology career. Pick up pieces of what everybody else is doing that looks like it’s working, and if it doesn’t work, then you learn and grow from it.”
“Having an open mind early in your IO psychology career can lead you to discover new interests and opportunities you might have otherwise overlooked.”
In this episode I welcome Brando & Joe, recent graduates from Hofstra University’s IO Psychology program and hosts of one of the most popular IO psychology podcasts- The Brando & Joe Podcast.
We are here to talk about IO psychology careers with two guys who are living the dream. These guys are the real deal and it is always a great experience to have fellow podcasters on the show. There is a lot we can learn from the collective wisdom they have gained through 80 some odd episodes of their own podcast.
Brando & Joe offer me (you dear listeners) a fresh perspective on early action in IO psychology careers. We discuss how they found their current jobs and how they are applying what they learned to the world of work.
One theme that we spend a good deal of time discussing is the critical role that internships and networking play in shaping career paths, providing us experienced professionals about the importance of giving others a chance.
Brandon and Joe’s adaptability, open-mindedness, and continuous learning mindset serve as a powerful reminder of the importance of staying current and flexible in a rapidly changing field.
Listen in and you will probably take a relaxing stroll down memory lane and reminisce about how you got where you are today and who helped you get there.
Take it or Leave it:
The “Take it or Leave it” Show for this episode included a spirited discussion of two super interesting articles:
“Will Robots Take My Job?” (website that looks at the future of various jobs)
- Summary: This website analyzes the risk of various jobs being automated and the future job prospects for IO psychologists. It highlights the low risk of automation in IO Psychology due to the need for complex problem-solving, creativity, and interpersonal skills.
- Discussion: We discuss the implications of automation in IO Psychology, emphasizing the unique human elements that protect their field from being fully automated.
- Link: Will Robots Take My Job
“The Future of IO Psychology: Adapting to AI and Technological Changes” (Linked in Article by Georgi Yankov, Pd.D.)
- Summary: Georgi argues that IO psychologists need to embrace AI and technological advancements to remain relevant or it will face extinction. He emphasizes the importance of multidisciplinary approaches and continuous learning.
- Discussion: The conversation explores the necessity of integrating AI into IO practices and the potential for rebranding the field to stay current with technological trends. Or else!
- Link: Future of IO Psychology
Full transcript
PTW_Brandon & Joe
Charles: Alright. Welcome to the show, guys. How are y’all doing this evening? Joe: Doing good. How’s it going?
Charles: Yeah. No worries. So where are we talking to you all from? The same city, different cities.
Joe: And what about what? Forty five minutes away from each other, Brandon? Long Island?
Brandon: Yeah. We’re we’re pretty close. We’re both Long Island right now. I’m in I’m in Hempstead. It goes a little further out east.
Joe: Gotcha. It’s a talking. I always tell people Stoney Brook because that’s, like, what everyone knows. But, yeah, like, right there.
Charles: Long Island’s huge. I I lived in Connecticut for a little while. And Long Island’s like across the sound there, but then I went to Long Island for a lot of stuff and It’s really, really long. It’s a long island. Right?
It’s a long no.
Joe: It’s a I didn’t use me
Charles: to say that. It really is a long map.
Joe: You got the beaches, you got you got Monteau out there, then you got the trains right to the city. It’s got Yeah. It’s got everything you can eat.
Charles: Yeah. I went to the Hampton’s one time. My buddies got a place there, not a mansion or anything, but I went there that was pretty little world. That’s not normally like the world I’m in, but that was pretty cool. And that that’s kind of at the at the end there too. Isn’t it a little bit?
Brandon: Yeah. It’s it’s a little bit further out there. I I haven’t been yet. But as we start talking more about Long Island, Joe’s accent just gets a little bit thicker.
Joe: Italian starts coming out and make, you know.
Charles: Hey, no no problem there. So, Austria too, that’s where you guys went to school. So we I’m down here in New Orleans. I we had a I can’t remember who it was. We had a great player on our team from Hyster.
And I don’t think Hyster has a football team anymore. Do they? Didn’t they did they cancel the program?
Brandon: They got rid of the football team to create the med school. So They they got out of funding for football to do a med school and they worked out in their favor for sure.
Charles: Yeah. I guess that’s like the opposite. Usually usually colleges and universities are dumping everything into the into the football program and people are like, they’re not giving any money, the academics. But you guys are pure over there then. That’s great. So you guys, roster guys, what’s the mascot again too? I can’t remember as Dutchman. Right? Dutchman. It used to be the Dutchman.
Brandon: It used to be the Dutchman. Now it’s the pride. So Oh. Like a pride of lions. So yeah. It used to be. And don’t worry, Joe. I’ll handle the the hospice specific questions.
Charles: Oh, wait. You didn’t go to hospice? You didn’t go to hospice then. Brandon: Oh, no. No. He did. I just was more involved with the program specific you
Charles: better know came in. Better know your school’s mascot, sir. Well, I’ll tell you what. So now it’s it’s triggered me. So we have Marcus Colson on our team.
He’s from Austria. So walk on. He ended up being all pro. You know, we won the Super Bowl. He was great.
So we had a cheer. I used to have, like, fifteen people in our section. And every time he had a great pass or caught a touchdown, we’d go how did it go? F l y, we’d spell out flying Dutchman and then we go flying Dutchman flying Dutchman. So that’s how I remember that. But is was there some kind of, like, you know, kind of like the the Washington redskins. Like, there was a problem with the word Dutchman because it was derogatory. Like, why why do you did they change it, you think?
Brandon: You know, that’s a great question. All all I know about it was, like, the primary founders of Austria were Dutch. And so, like, the original house that Hofsho, like, there’s a hall in the middle of camp, is called Hofsho Hall. And that specific room or that specific building, they they were, like, the Dutch settlers who came in, built that there, established that there, and that was where the university was born. So that was where the Dutchman came from, and I actually have no idea why they changed it or how it how it turned into the Austro Pride, but we have two lines as a mass Scott, that is now what you see at the basketball games or sometimes just walking around campus.
Charles: Gotcha. Very cool. Well, it is what it is. That’s above our page. Right? That’s for sure. Good stuff. So you guys, IO, you just tell tell us, tell me, and the audience. Here a little bit about you just finished grad school, entering into the work world, give us a little idea of where you are in the grand scheme of your careers.
Joe: We’ve taken on responsibility now. Now we’re at a school. We gotta start up, become a full fledged coach coach. I’ll I’ll I’ll start this off. I so we both graduated June be what was it? Brandon? Was it end of May? Beginning of June? What was the action?
Brandon: End of May. Yeah.
Joe: Now I’m at a company called Capri Holdings during total awards. So, like, compensation, benefits, workday, people analytics, that sort of stuff. It’s cool. It’s a lot of data. It’s a lot of that mixture of that INOS side.
It’s it’s it’s really fun so far.
Charles: Do they make Capri Sun?
Joe: No. And that actually pretty cool work for, like, juice box. They are a a fashion conglomerate. So they own Michael Kors, Versace, and Jimmy Choo. Nice. And then we just got acquired by Tapestry or it’s pending. And it will be that coach kids’ pants, Stuart Weisman. So they’re all these different fashion brands.
Charles: So you get discounts?
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get those employee discounts.
I’m not a big fashionable guy. But I’ll start wearing some some clothes here and there are a couple of golf shirts, you know. Yeah.
Charles: Get Versace suit for goodness sake. Come on.
Joe: That might be a little out of my finger. Yeah. Even without discount.
Charles: Yeah. Brandon. Well, get a promotion. Brandon. Tell us your story. Tell us your story, my friend.
Brandon: Yeah. It’s funny. You’ll see why Joe and I work so well together. He’s more on the comp side. So Right now, I’m in consulting.
Specifically, I work at a boutique firm out here in New York called Latchmere. And we’ve been doing a wide range of projects from, like, change management to executive onboarding to performance management. And as Joe said, now that we’re graduate, it’s really starting the next chapter. It it it was really like a full circle moment. I feel like we I remember him and I both sit and waiting to go across the stage and we’re looking at each other and then move forward now. We’re about a month away from that and it’s it’s crazy just how much has changed in just that month. Like, Joe went from his role to now working at Capri and starting, and I’m still in that transition period from my role to working hopefully in a internal maybe OD or performance management area. I haven’t figured out exactly where I’m going post grad yet, but I know that it’ll be an internal role is what I’m looking for.
Charles: Gotcha. So you’re
Brandon: On the o side.
Charles: So you’re doing an internship now. Is that more what you’re saying?
Brandon: Yeah. It would so it was it’s labeled as an internship by on paper, but actually I’m, like, a full time basically, a full time consultant for the firm. So I so I work, like, with them independently as a consultant, but it was my internship as I went through the Hoxtra program because Hoxtra requires students to have an internship on their way through.
Charles: That’s amazing. So and I just thought about this, but, boy, people might be wondering, why do you have these two guys on your show? And it’s because you guys have a podcast. And I think that’s amazing, you know, that you all and I’ve listened to it. Multiple times. I think it’s great, and it must be a lot of fun. So I always like to have fellow podcasters on the show, and I always like to talk to other people about it. So we’ll talk a lot about careers. I got a lot of things to say about kind of my early career and how it might or might not compare to where you guys are at. And I can even give you some career advice if you want. I don’t know if you wanna take it from me. But tell us a little bit about podcasts. What’s the name of it? How did you decide to start it? And, you know, what happens on there for our audience? Because audience, people out there listen to these guys podcast. It’s really good and they’re gonna tell you about it and why it’s good.
Brandon: Yeah. I’ll I’ll take the lead first and Joe feel free to cut in anytime. So I guess to hit the first part of how it started, I wish Joe and I had a really cool story of, like, we were sitting outside one day and we said something at the same time and it and it just happened. But in all honesty, like, we were just I we were probably just walking on campus and overheard the whisperings of podcast. Like, there was somebody who in the who’s in the roster program, who had a podcast for a brief second.
We decided that it was something we wanted to do on our own. We just worked well together on group projects, and it just kind of fell into place. And on our podcast, we talk about We started off appealing mainly to, like, early career I o’s and people who are still in school trying to find their niche or find the area that they’ve like, that they wanna go into because we knew that it was kind of hard for us when we first started in our programs. We’re like, I O is so broad. What what direction do we go in?
Where do we go? So that was kind of like the question that we wanted to answer with our podcast. And we’ve found that we had a lot of good resources through our poster network that were gonna be really helpful for us to provide people with some of those answers. And from there, we really just kind of just caught fire and we are now seventy episodes in and continuing at post graduation and it’s been a really fun fun journey that I like, I’m really happy to say Joe’s been my partner alongside during that. We’ve had a I think we’ve had a blast on there. Is there anything I missed there, Joe?
Joe: I I think didn’t we think of the idea at a bar? Like, I don’t think you’re wrong on camera, mister Brandon. Yeah. I gave the
Brandon: PG version. I guess,
Charles: Hey. Your legal age, I would imagine. Right?
Joe: Yeah. No. We are we’re full fledged graduates. No. We’re very good at putting it better. I I remember the best the the thought that came out of it was, I don’t even care if anyone listens. I just wanna be able to network with people. In my head, I was, like, why have someone over a fifteen minute chat when I could be, like, come on the podcast and then share their, I guess, their wisdom to the world to the to the two viewers who would get, you know, in in in the beginning. But then it did it caught fire and we have some some people listening now and the best comments are when you get, like, message about didn’t or emailed and they’re, like, just wanted to say, like, we love your podcast. It’s helped us so much in our journey.
And that’s, like, really curious students. I was, like, oh, that’s actually, like, It’s actually working out. People are people are enjoying it. I know for it to really cover most of it.
Charles: That’s awesome. You know, one of the things I was on directionally correct with Cole and Scott and They’re a duo as well. A lot of times, I’m like, you know, I probably come out of my shell a lot more. Sometimes I’m pretty reserved. It just depends on who my guest is. But I think it’s be really awesome to have, you know, two people doing it. That part’s cool. And I I love the definitely very clever to think about the you know, the, hey, early career guidance, overall career guidance, talking to people who’ve been there and having a reason to do that. You know, it was thirty some years ago. I just had one of my ex professors, Stephen Gill, and on my last episode, and that really got me thinking about crap school and my experience there. But, you know, I was back in the days where I sound like an old timer. We had plug in and dial into the central mainframe Kermit protocol to even get on any kind of online thing. And we had to go to this this different room and a different building to pick up our dot matrix output. And I used one of those shitty you you wouldn’t even know what they are, probably. It was like a typewriter, but it also had a little electronic word processor So you could see the little words in this little rectangle window gray like dot matrix, you know, and you could go back and correct stuff.
And then it would you’d hit it type it or whatever, and it would type it out. And it was, you know, it was hard doing all that. So, actually, I had a PC I had a PC after, like, the first year or something. So it was it it was a lot different, but what was the same is my first year I didn’t have what you guys have going on with being able to to reach out to a lot of people. And we didn’t really have websites or much or anything like that.
So you go to the the coffee shop and then give you like a beer, flat, you know, piled piled with like two feet tall of journal articles, Xerox, you know. And I just remember getting that and sitting in my selection class And we had all years in the same class. So they’re talking to, like, third year students, mostly first, second, third. I felt so lost, man. I’m like, what the hell am I doing here?
I have no idea what I wanna do. Is this what I’m Is this right for me? You know, it was really difficult. So I think that’s cool that I’m not the only one that thinks that. I ended up in that selection class the first year, and my first big paper was on work samples.
And work samples made so much sense to me, like, you wanna hire somebody? Give them a replica of the job. And I’m like, oh, okay. This all makes sense now. I feel I feel a little more grounded.
So that that part was really cool. But career wise though, you know, one of the things that we didn’t get a lot of is internships and things like that. So again, we have, like, the the group, I O, classroom, or, you know, the the office, somebody’d stick on the bulletin board, a thing, hey, there’s a job opening or somewhere here or there. And we had a practicum, which was like many internships, but they’re all like small local businesses. So I had zero practical experience really coming out.
And and it was really hard for me to get my first job. It was difficult. So kudos to you guys figuring out how to So I’m real curious. I wanna hear because that first job was the hardest job for me. And I did my dissertation on expatriate stuff, and that’s what I wanted to do. I couldn’t find any work in that area. There was no LinkedIn. You know, I called people who wrote papers and stuff, but it was really hard. So how did you guys land your jobs telling me a little bit about how that works in today’s world.
Joe: The piece about partnerships, I think, is and Brandon brought me up that posture. Has a mandatory internship program that you have to do during your second year. And it really helps you connect the network and and and meet other people. So specifically for me, I interned at my current company last summer, and that’s how I I met my managers. I actually learned that this is what I wanna do.
So even forget about the network and stuff, this is the kind of stuff that you that you like to do. And then when the time came I guess, I started beginning of June. That’s when I received, like, a a message asking if I would like to come back and, like, if, you know, if I’d like to continue with the work. But through internships is the best way that I would hunt is just so I kinda put your foot in the door.
Charles: So how did you get the internship though? Do you just get assigned? Or did you get to choose? I mean, it is a built in pipeline, so you you know you’re gonna get something
Joe: That’s a good question.
Charles: Yeah. Glad you get it.
Joe: Especially if you’re in master’s programs, you wanna make sure that you’re utilizing your professors and all the resources that they offer. So for me, We had a great professor, doctor Saiizong, who’s who’s been on our podcast a couple of times. And I got to start talking with him I was interested in compensation and data work and analytical work, and he put me in contact with the internship, which then turned into my job. But it never woulda happened if I didn’t kinda get that conversation going. And we talk about it on our podcast sometimes, you know, you’re paying all this money for this program, especially if you’re a PhD program or a master’s program, and they offer these resources.
But you have to kind of take that first step in using those resources to then kind of get that that that journey going.
Charles: Yeah. For sure. What about you?
Brandon: Yeah. I it’s funny. Like, Joe and I, we do feel the same about a lot of these things, but it’s so true about getting your foot in the door. It’s true also, Charles, you said, about the pipeline that Coster has. They do have, like, that type of hot pipeline, like, our professor, doctor Rebecca Grossman.
She is, like, the internship director and she is like somebody who’s sending out a lot of jobs for people to apply to throughout the semester, which was really helpful for a lot of us. My job was one of those included who’s like a hostrelum who went on on his own to do his own consulting.
And at the time, I was between like doing an internal role or an external role And in my in a past life, I used to coach tennis and pickleball. And back in that time period, it was a lot of very, like, hands on work, but a lot of working with people and working with clients. And I I thought my skills were the most transferrable to go into the consulting field.
Joe: Mhmm.
Brandon: And so that was kind of where I looked, and this is, like, my recommendation for students or people early in their career at all, when you’re trying to figure out where you wanna go, it’s really helpful to, like, think about the experience that you have because not everybody will have relevant work experience, but with IO, it’s so easy to make it relevant because we work in so many different disciplines. And so I would use my coaching background to then apply to this consulting rule, which in theory might not sound like they work very well together, but it was it was a really good handoff. And that experience was something that I’ve definitely I’m still doing it. I I take with me every day and it’s it was a huge learning curve, especially, like, I I’ll I’ll never forget, like, the first project I got assigned and you you get thrown everything and you’re like, alright, figure it out. But to be able to have that opportunity while I’m still learning the material, while I have all of the resources at my program, it was definitely something that was really helpful.
I remember I would always come into class and, like, Joe and I would usually get there early. And sometimes we would ask our professors questions that we were facing at work. And it was so helpful to be able to have that just to be able to tap into your network, but they’re right there. And sometimes you forget And you have those people when you’re going day to day and you’re, like, experiencing it, but when you’re sitting in class and your professors up there teaching you about selection, and you have to develop a selection tool. It’s like, oh, I I can go ask them right now.
So I think that that was something that was really cool for us to have in the program. And just in general, to have that experience coming out now graduating and, like, being able to speak towards, like, some practical experience on our way out. It’s definitely awesome.
Charles: Yeah. That is very cool. So, I mean, you could start some kind of I’m just picturing some kind of like team building pickleball thing. Right? Because pickleball is up. Is it always doubles? I don’t know much about that.
Brandon: Yeah. It can be singles too.
Charles: Oh, gotcha. Well, maybe there’s something there. Maybe there’s a tie in, but definitely the coaching. Right? That’s a huge part of our field.
And you do it. You gotta interact with people. You gotta give them feedback when they don’t do a good job in a nice way. Right? That helps them.
You gotta you gotta recognize eyes their abilities and figure out where you need to direct them. So and you gotta deal with people who probably are paying the butt and and and just take it. So my first thing so I got my it was an internship actually, and I got it from the Saiaop job placement thing. And I remember I interviewed with two guys, and we talked about sports mostly, and then there you know, I got back then at the SaiaP job placement thing, you got a number and everybody had a little cubby hole in this like cardboard, you know, letter box. And so you would like put into who you wanted to interview with and you go interview, and then then they would put a thing in your thing in your box.
It said we wanna interview you. And and so it’s just this weird blind exchange of pieces of paper through the process, but I got a job at Sprint. I moved to Kansas city and I was doing selection stuff and I was just like whatever I could do, you know. I didn’t think I wanted to go into selection specifically, but that’s where I went. And I had a really good mentor who was, you know, my boss there.
And I got to do a lot of cool stuff. I really liked it and they offered me a job but I was in Kansas City, and I needed to finish my dissertation. And my supervisor had been there for ten years that she hadn’t finished her dissertation. And I’m like, you know what? I gotta finish. So nothing against her. She’s awesome. But she chose to, you know, keep going down the work path. So I’m like, I gotta go back. Down to Louisiana where my subjects are, where my teachers are and stuff.
So anyway, so I didn’t continue there, and then I took a job a different job, but but internships are great, you know, and having the resources of a full amount of professors. And even other grad students is great. You know, I think that that’s awesome. So, I mean, in in overall, right? So now you’re in the world of work.
How does it? How does it feel like you got autonomy? Both of you guys got autonomy to do things? Are there other IOs? Would imagine Brandon because you’re in a consulting firm that probably are, but I won’t answer for you.
Joe, I wonder more you know, because a lot of times you you find these interesting companies you’d never heard of, and they may not have a bunch of IOs. They may you may be the only one. I have a lot of friends that are like that. So talk about the the company environment in our field. Tell us more about that.
Brandon: I’ll I’ll take the reins first because I’m I my my boss is a graduate of our program. So we get to talk yeah. We get to talk a lot of IO, and it’s really fun. Honestly, it’s a unique experience because I through the podcast, Joe and I have gotten to speak with so many people who are the only IOs at their work. And Sometimes that can be a little tough, sometimes it can be lonely.
And so to be in that position right now, it’s it’s really cool. One of our one of my people I work with as well he is just finished his dissertation, so he just defended and he like, being able to celebrate that milestone with him while also understanding the pain that he went through to get
there. Was something that was really, really cool that maybe at another company someone might not be able to recognize. And full autonomy in terms of the consulting world is kind of just how it sat for me the whole time. So my my work didn’t really change post graduation. If anything, I just got a little more responsibility. And while I was in the IO program at HOSTRA, I was fairly involved with the program with, like, I was the president of our program. And worked with some other students to start a student organization in the city of New York. So if anything, I just feel like I have more time to just work now and podcast, which is what we all wanna be doing anyways. So that’s kind of where I sit.
I think Joe has a a way better experience of what it looks like to be post grad sitting in the IO world.
Joe: I would say better. I’d say I’d say a different I I probably left out a key detail for my my my one of my bosses graduated from the Hoxtra PhD program in I o, psychology. So there is a connection with them with the with one of our previous professors. And we have a couple of IOs on my direct team And then I’m not exactly sure in the company. We’re a pretty big company, so I’m guessing there’s there’s a couple scattered here and there.
But to echo what Brandon said that working with other areas is nice because especially when you’re, like, diving into the data and and and coming up with certain solutions on on what you should do. It’s it’s nice to have other IOs there to to to bounce back and off of. But, yeah, we have we have a pretty cool culture, and I I guess you can attribute some of that to the I o psychology that we bring to it.
Charles: Yeah. So what you guys are exposing here is the power of network. You guys are working that great. Right? You have you have professors in your program helping you and other graduates.
Nothing wrong with that. That’s the way the world works, by the way. And then you do a podcast and you’re meeting more and more people. Right? You’re that is what you gotta do. In any profession, truly, it’s about the relationships you build. And the people that know you and trust you, you know, I think that’s that’s really interesting stuff and it’s it you can’t you can’t deny, you know, the importance of that. So you’re working at both you guys, and I think that’s fantastic. And, you know, you noted some, like, eighty episodes. So I think you guys are maybe episode seventy nine or eighty of my show and I started doing it pre pan pandemic for sure So probably twenty nineteen, right, five years, that used to be once a month.
It was once a month, I think. And then I went to once every two weeks, then I went to once every week, not once every two weeks. I’ve been tinkering with it, but sounds like you guys are pretty solidly once a week. Right? Eighty episodes.
Yeah. Congrats, man.
Joe: We changed it. Now we’re every fifteenth and thirtieth, I think. Right? For instance?
Brandon: It’s just every two weeks. So we yeah. We were doing every week through the grad program. And it’s crazy looking back on that now. It’s like, how how did we do? How did we do that? But yeah. Now we’re now we’re doing every two weeks. Yeah. A lot of sleeveless nights.
But we now we’re every two weeks, so we try to release one in the middle of the month and one at the end of the month to still keep our audience engaged.
Charles: Yeah. So the other thing you all started to do now is, you know, exit the hallowed halls of your academic institution. You’re deposited into the giant world of work And while you’re working with other IOs, you’re in a business. So tell us a little bit about how your you know, what’s your experience interacting with the bigger business. Because again, any IO, and this is one of the things I think that we have a little bit of a stigma in our field, I think, for not always being super business related, you know, able to really navigate business well, which I think is a little bit of a misconception.
But, you know, a lot of people are super worried about critiquing everything people do in an academic way. But anyway, to be really successful at some point, you gotta earn interface with the business, even academics, I think the or, you know, the university is a business. But I wanna hear that experience because I know my first experience going into a business. What did I do? I talked really loudly on the phone in my cube to friends when I had downtime in my person who was the manager of everybody is like, what are you doing, man?
You can’t be talking on the phone during work. I talk over people a lot. I still kinda do that. So, you know, there’s a lot of things. I was pretty pretty raw coming in and and pretty unaware of some stuff even though I’m practical behind it.
So tell us a little bit about What’s what’s that experience? You’re working in a business? You’re not in college anymore. Grad school. Sorry.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I had zero experience or knowledge in the business realm I came from, like, an education background. So I guess when I was until twenty two and now twenty three. So Thank you. Thank you. And so it was a big step for me. Like, learning what what businesses do and how and how they interact and and how you communicate with different people. The IO program definitely helps you, but it’s not until you get that actual experience until you’re actually full of view lights, what you have to do.
If I have any advice, I’ve been for iOS and specialty students is try not to shy away from the actual business processes or or the product or the service that the business is offering. I feel like sometimes we can get siloed into our into our selection role or our culture role or, like, into one specific thing that we’re doing, but to have that kind of in broader mindset, of what the business is actually trying to accomplish and to really learn in that sort of that sort of section. That’s kind of what helped me fully realize, like, what I can do best in my role. Right now, it’s tough. I didn’t I didn’t really know much about what what what what a business was, what a what finances are and all that sort of stuff.
Brandon: Yeah. It’s it’s an interesting world when you jump into like, from the consulting angle, I’m working with a couple other businesses, like, on a daily or, like, weekly basis. And I I have, like, a interesting path here as well because I did my undergrad degree was in business, specifically business management. So I have, like, a little bit of a background in terms of, like, being able to communicate that language and bringing in the IO knowledge to that. But either way, I didn’t have the experience.
So regardless, what comes into what comes to me when I jumped into corporate America, now as like a fresh grad student or graduate, one of the things that I saw was, okay, how do you see other people communicating? And that was really where I felt like it was important. It’s like you wanna be a sponge of the moment when you’re early in your career and you just wanna pick up pieces
of what everybody else is doing that looks like it’s working. And if it doesn’t work, then you learn and it’s okay to make mistakes. And that’s okay too.
Like, that’s part of the business process. People do make mistakes and you have to learn and grow from them. So, like, that was my experience going in where I’d be dealing with one client in one organization, and I would say one thing one way. But then if I go to another client in a different organization, I have to make sure I say it a different way. And that was like a tight rope walk that I wasn’t used to having to navigate, but you pick up on it by observing the people around you.
And as I always, we have that social psychology background, which I think gives us the opportunity to be able to pick up on those types of things early on. So even though there is a stigma of, like, maybe talking too technical or maybe, like, going too far into the details. I I do think that we do have the tools to be able to walk that line of speaking the business language while having the IO knowledge and applying that. So that was kind of what I saw in my first my first year and especially the last few months with more clients in the workplace.
Charles: Yeah. Well, Brandon, you gotta throw those textbooks out the window. I mean, businessman. I’m sure you learned a lot, but you know, what do you really remember? Right? You remember the the hard knock, hard scrabble world of getting in the biz I’m just joking a little bit there, but So that I think that’s a really good point. So I’ve been consulting, gosh, thirty years on and off to doing lots of different types of projects. And always when I before I go in and usually there’s a sales process for me. Right? So I look up the company.
I look up their history. I look up what they do. I look for their latest strategic initiatives. A lot of companies even on their website, so publish. Some kind of acronym.
Like, this is our lead for the Eagles program or something, you know. So I note that and I’ll slip in a word or two that’s like their language in my discussions that I’ve seen, not too much because they want someone to be an outside, you know, an outside objective observer, but you just you let them know that you know what they do. And and I truly care about that. Too because ultimately, every single thing you’re doing in there is all oriented toward what’s the goal of this business? What are they trying to accomplish?
And it all cascades down and your job is to align everything to that. Everything you do needs to align to that. Even if you don’t feel it or see it, you know, in the moment. So I think that’s that’s really that’s a really good way to think about it. Right?
You’re a student Even if we’re always students all through life, but you’re a student even when you’re in there. And the more you can kinda have I’m gonna call it street smarts a little bit too. Right? The more you can kind of observe what happening. Make sure you’re stepping the right
way and make sure that you’re standing up for what it is that you’re bringing to the table. So what is the biggest. I know you guys are fresh in, but you did have some internship time before that. What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned that you didn’t really know. Now you’re in a business. We’re learning lessons every day.
What was the what was the toughest, biggest, whatever story about a lesson that you’ve learned in your in your nascent experience here.
Brandon: Yeah. Blessings. I I’ll I’ll start us off here. I feel like like you said, we’re constant learners. So it’s good to be learning lessons.
You also try to minimize the amount of problems you’re starting or anything along those lines when you’re at work. But I would say that just when I’ve I remember, like, my first few days starting And I thought, especially with a graduate degree or, like, working towards a graduate degree, I thought I needed to have every answer. And it was okay to not it was okay to not have the answer, especially as the consultant, like even more I felt pressure to have the right answer or know how to do something that I might not have the tools yet because I was still completing my degree. But I I think that that’s okay to not have that and being able to be resourceful and like know when you don’t have the answer so that you can go and find it and learn and ask and who’s the right person to ask, but that was something that I picked up early on in my career where, like, I always thought especially as I was always a subject matter expert as a tennis coach. And I would walk I would walk on the court and I was expected to know every single answer that someone was going to ask me.
And there were times where there were things that we’re talking about in a business perspective that was not IO. And I would think I have to answer it. And it was and I would think I’d have to go, and I think I’d have to keep trying to provide information that I didn’t have. And so to really be able to know when it’s your turn and to build off of that. That was something I learned early
on that I think kinda helped me out now as I, like, go and continue to pursue like my career. I think that’s something I’ll do a lot more because I’ll be able to, like, provide more detail when needed and be able to step back and, like, listen, I don’t know yet, but I can and get that back to you in a little bit.
Charles: Yeah. You’re hired. It is. It’s true. You gotta as long as you know where to go to get the answer, there is no shame in that.
And I think people appreciate that more. Right? That you’re you’re it’s worse to, yes, definitely act like you know everything and come up with a wrong answer. Least you get a chance to get it’s probably more probability that you get the right answer if you get a chance to go back. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
I don’t think that people people have a problem with that at all. What about you, Joe?
Joe: I probably say being open minded, especially when you’re early career, early student. One thing that I I had to struggle through to is not closing out any opportunity is not the right word, but the field. You don’t wanna sial yourself into one specific avenue, especially when we’re in a field that is open to so many different various, like, roles that you can differentiate yourself off
yourself off to different parts of HR or different parts of consultant. Having that open mind when you’re in your first and second year of your master’s program or or your thirtieth kind of program you’re in, can kinda, like, really help you learn and grow just as a as a practitioner in a whole. And then, you know, maybe maybe two years down the line, you’re like, wait. This part of HR is really cool, and I can really find myself doing some great things here. Good
thing I didn’t shut myself off a year ago and only stay in this one pathway because I wouldn’t have learned about the southern the southern avenue that really interests me. So when I first started out, I was super, super interested in in data. And I still work with data, but I was so I was only gonna be a data analyst, and I was only gonna do this only thing. And now I work a little bit more on that the people side and I have that that work coming to me.
And that would not happen if I didn’t stay open minded.
Charles: Cool. I agree. I think they teach us to be so critical in our grad school too that, like, you’re just picking stuff apart all the time. I found myself being overly negative and narrow minded sometimes. Especially early on because we’re taught to be critical, rip this article apart, you know.
So I shred this methodology or whatever, at least in my in my training. Alright. Well, let’s play a little taker or leave it shall we? So our first thing today is not an article. It’s an interesting web site that I found called Will Robots take my job, and they actually have something about IO Psychology.
So you can see one of the things I typically don’t scroll through the article for the people watching on YouTube just because it’s hard to read an article when a guy is scrolling through it on the screen. But the interesting part about this is it looks like they did some number crunching somehow and some survey work, and they they came up with the idea that Our field has a four percent risk level of being automated, which is pretty cool, but three point eight percent growth, but twenty thirty two. They have some wages on here and a volume in the red of like there’s not a lot of job openings. So we got as I owe as a job score of seven out of ten for our future. And we’re minimal risk of being automated because let’s see.
That gives some reasons here. Typically demand complex problem solving creativity, strong interpersonal skills. And this one kinda got me a high degree of manual dexterity. So that tells me some AI is probably doing this. But anyway, so that’s our article.
It’s not really an article. And I’ll share the screen that kind of shows the actual outline, but we already talked about it. For those watching on YouTuber listening at home. That’s it. Job Security. This field is expected to remain secure due to the necessity of human expertise and managing workforce dynamics and employee well-being. So let’s talk about this. I wanna get your guys take. What do you think about this article? You you give a what happens here? You’re gonna give a little bit of your take on it. And at the end, we’re all gonna vote take it or leave it, and we’ll get a little thumbs up or thumbs down. So go ahead. What do you think?
Joe: I I it was interesting. I I think it’s funny that you said that there might be some AI working here, and it’s funny because it’s, like, talking about work being taken over by, like, automation AI. And then, like, can you imagine, like, an AI? Software from that article. So so Yeah. Regardless. The one question that I want to pose is they compared it, it looks like, to the median salary of the US as a whole, but I would be interested to see it compare to non IO corporate salaries? Because I feel like there’s a lot of similarities between those two roles. Put the one big difference as IO versus non IO. And then I feel like it would give people better ideas like, oh, like, our NBA is getting a higher salary.
I feel like they are, but that might just be because we’re we’re we’re still growing. That that’s not
big. That’s my data. But that was my one, like, question. I I know Brandon, you had something else.
Towards towards the bottom of the article. But I I think overall, it was pretty cool. I enjoyed it.
Brandon: Yeah. It was it was cool. I I I remember, like, I was looking at this, and I and I was Joe and I were chatting a little bit when we were just looking at the articles. And I saw the volume number at a thousand. And I was like, okay.
Well, we know we know decent amount of IOs. And so one thing that I was thinking there is who are they gathering this information from? Because there are so many IOs who are not labeled as an I O psychologist And I think, Joe, we have one on our podcast, and that’s the only one we’ve ever heard of. Who’s as somebody who’s labeled as an AI it was probably
Joe: the AI’s technology. Right? Yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting because there’s gonna be so many of us doing so many different things like you and I are both in consulting trials and but we don’t see consultants on there, but we’re both IOs. And so I think the I think the risk of us being automated, I I under I think I share that same level. But I think about it in terms of, like, other areas of IO, like, the heavier analytics side, like, I guess, like, my question that I posed is, like, what do you guys think on, like, an analytics piece? Like, where do you think AI has room to I guess automate there in terms of maybe not taking roles, but taking some of the responsibility away from roles.
That’s like the conversation that I would be thinking of. Of more like where AI is gonna work in with us.
Charles: Yeah. So my thoughts are, well, I wanna answer or not answer, but speak to what you guys said. So I never really thought much about stats, but I just dug in here. You could see it on screen if you’re watching on YouTube, which you should be. And as of twenty twenty three, there’s only one thousand and thirty people in employees, industrial like I said, we have different titles for this stuff.
So that’s way low. I mean, there’s no way that’s right. The other thing you see here is that it’s this is really interesting at the top. It shows that Look at this. Right?
Calculated four percent polling on a on a hundred and sixty seven votes. Is twenty five percent. So we think I don’t know how the hell they calculated it, but the polling is a lot more. You know, what? Five times more almost that people think we’re gonna be automated, but it’s still only twenty five percent.
On the salary data, I’ll tell you this right now. I’d never pay attention to this kind of stuff. I mean, you can go to a company, Joe, you do comp and benefits. Right? So you’re you would actually be closer to finding out that data, but I think this is who knows where this came from, who knows how up to date it is.
There’s so much variation. This probably includes academics, it never divided it up. So I’m gonna throw I’m gonna throw that wages number completely out the window and the volume number out the window. And what I’m gonna take away is I do think the things about our field of interpersonal skills, etcetera. Manual dexterity, I don’t fucking know where the hell that came
from.
I guess it’s because you gotta type on a keyboard. I’m not really sure. But so we’ll do our votes and I will tell you right here, I’m gonna vote it thumbs up. Okay. So I’m voting thumbs up on it. I think it’s great as a as a neuropsychologist. I’m glad my job’s not gonna be automated away. What what about you guys?
Brandon: I’m gonna vote a thumbs up as well because I I agree. I’m glad our jobs will not be automated, and I think it’s always good for us to take an IO lens when we look at these articles for sure and look at the data. So I’m happy we did that.
Charles: Cool. Alright. So that’s a good one. Now we’re gonna go to the next article here. Alright.
So George Yankoff. He’s been on my show. He’s a brilliant guy. I always like his takes. And while it’s cut off here for this studio with BD people watching on YouTube. The end of its cut off, but I’m still gonna read it. I’m gonna read what we have. That Georgia thinks that I know psychologists better change soon while our field will become obsolete and that our our whole profession is at risk. If we don’t really get a little bit more open minded, especially about technology and that training is not giving us the right AI skills to be, you know, to be good at this. And that, you know, we better start looking at other other disciplines and getting more multidisciplinary in order for us to be able to survive as a field. So we’ve got a real brilliant. I have psychologists who thinks we’re toast if we’re not gonna be getting a little bit more advanced and stop, start kind of shedding off some of the myopic thinking that has kept our field. Back. So what’s your guys take on that? I’ll put the actual LinkedIn article up here so I can see it.
Brandon: Mhmm. I’ll I’ll go first. You know, my take is interesting. I I remember I was looking at the I o psychology Reddit when we were at Saiaop this year, and everybody was saying AI AI AI. Like, that was what you were seeing everywhere I think it’s important for us as IOs to adopt and learn around AI.
And I’m interested to hear your guys’ thoughts on this too because I I see it as another tool in our tool belt that will make us better at our jobs. I don’t see it as the demise and, like, downfall of io, but maybe like, the growth and maturity of IO. And I think it’s hard for it’s hard for anyone to say what they know it’ll turn into because AI is still growing and learning. But from my perspective, as a student who’s jumping in now and limited exposure to AI for sure. I have a limited exposure, and I’ll say that right now, but I I read about this stuff.
And I I do think that there is something to be said about IO using it as a way of helping and not as a way of hurting. And I’d love to get your guys’ ideas on that too.
Charles: Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
Joe: I feel like AI could be used as, like, a buzzword sometimes. That, like, half the time, you just hear the words or the letters AI, and there’s no actual substance following it. And it can be thrown around the the academic and practitioner world. Mhmm. But there’s there’s no substance substance with it.
Not not in this article. I I enjoyed this article. The one thing I’d have to disagree with, though, is that I feel like Saia did a great job communicating AI, especially when you had specific companies and organizations talk about how they used AI in their selection tools. In their talent management tools. But the best thing about SIOP is that it’s not all AI.
So he I have the article that he referenced nerve I don’t know. Yep. Because it’s a nerve IP address.
Charles: NERFs. It was actually yeah. It was here in New Orleans. And I was gonna go, but it was really expensive. But one of my marketing people were actually was doing something there and she invited me to go to it.
But it’s a totally different thing than Sayop. I mean, it was it’s hundreds of computer scientists, and they’re all talking about AI because that’s what they do. Right? So contextually, it’s not exactly the same thing, but I get his point. I’ll I’ll do my take when you’re when you’re done, Joe.
Joe: Yeah. No. So and that’s what I one of those peso is gonna bring up. It it sounds like an amazing conference. But to me, it’s almost like comparing two totally separate things because, so I have to talk about AI.
We could we could talk about it. It’s it’s but I’m the way that it’s not all it has has to do around Cisco. Like, I wouldn’t wanna go to every single session the conference and post write and hear the words AI when our field has so much more to offer. So I think it’s hard to compare it to when when and the, you know, the objections objective. Each conference might be might be a bit different.
But other than that, I thought I thought it was I thought it was interesting. I I can agree at the end where he talks about work psychology and being the new name. Yeah. Maybe we need a little bit of a rebranding.
Brandon: Yeah. We’ve talked about it.
Charles: Try that. They tried to rebrand the name and it failed. Everybody went back. So we argued too much about it. So I’ll tell you this.
One of the things I remember is when I saw the conference and I’m super into AI, you guys have to know, like, I am steeped in. I I study it. Every day. I’m trying to learn as much as I can about it. I’m looking at the future of I o psychology through that lens.
I’ve always been someone who wants to be on the cutting edge of this. So I read through the program of this conference, and all the stuff was so far beyond it was so deeply technical that I’m like, I don’t even think I would enjoy going. Now I’m remembering one of the reasons I didn’t go. I would think I would enjoy this because it’s so deeply technical that I don’t quite standard. There were some things that were like, oh, that’s cool.
I could probably get that. But I I’m not a computer scientist. So, you know and Georgeie has got he’s, like, incredibly gifted in in that area. Right? But I think what he’s saying is he went to this thing and he saw all these people doing all this insane stuff with AI and talking about all the potential and the you know, and then you you kinda get excited and you go back to the real world and you see IO psychologists not doing any of this stuff.
You know, we’re we’re really not considering some of these things that are big time seismic shifts
that are happening and looking at some of these methods and methodologies that could be used. So I could see how he feels that way. Because I do think that that it’s gonna transform what we do. I I truly do. I don’t think it’s gonna make us extinct, but what I think the the point here is We just keep doing the same thing over and over because we know it works.
But there’s gotta be completely new paradigms of ways to do things. And we better be open minded to that stuff or we’re gonna get left behind. So that that’s really what I take out of it comparing these two conferences as apples to oranges in some sense. Comparing the the actual science of AI and what’s going on to what we’re doing. It’s like we’re in kindergarten. You know, and and they’re in in in grad school or something. But we’re gonna have to get more multidisciplinary to make it work. There’s no way we could just sit here and say, we’re doggly clinging to everything about iosecology, and we’re not open minded to some of these other things. Because in the future, at least in the selection world, I believe, you know, selection firms are gonna be, assessment providers are gonna be tech firms first. That’s just what’s gonna happen. So We’re in a very interesting time. I mean, across my whole career of thirty years, there’s never been anything. Talking about jobs and stuff. So my internship this is pretty exciting stuff. Not all of my job at all.
I would say, like, ten percent of my job, but it still was interesting enough that I would take bubble scan tron type sheets from people taking tests off the fax machine. Then I took this hard plastic score key that you overlaid on those sheets, and you would see which ones were right or wrong, and then you would tally up a score then you put it into an excel sheet from all the ones that came off of there, you know, it’s usually ten or twenty in a batch, maybe thirty. This was the craziest amazing technological thing. I emailed the spreadsheet to people. Unbelievable. They had inner office mail where you’d have these these Manila envelopes that would come to your cube and, like, that’s how people would move documents around a lot. But I got to email this spreadsheet. Incredible. I felt like I was cheating or something. So you could see how far we’ve come, but, I mean, that between that and you know, in our office mail, it’s it doesn’t seem as revolutionary as some of the stuff we’re dealing with.
So tell me as we close out too, Actually, we gotta we gotta vote this one. So what do we all vote here?
Joe: Can I do can I do like a like a sixty percent or is it is it a bummer?
Charles: I don’t have that in the icons for people viewing at home. But what I’m gonna do is I’m gonna give you an up and it down. So I’ll I’ll put them on top of each other.
Joe: So I’m sorry to interrupt.
Charles: Wait. I might be able to rotate the but, obviously, I just got out of practice using all these all this this software, but that’s okay. We’re having fun. Okay. So so kinda half and half are like that?
Brandon: I’m gonna give it a thumbs up for the conversation. I think it’s a good conversation for us to be having. And to promote an extreme in terms of AI with iOS, I think it’s good to get people thinking about it. So I’m I’m gonna put I’m gonna give it a thumbs up.
Charles: And I too am gonna give it a thumbs up because while it’s a little bit of hyperbole, if you don’t shake the trees a little and you don’t make some noise about this stuff, who’s gonna listen. Right? And so Mhmm. We can’t be sheep. In this in this field.
And, you know, it’s really interesting because what we’re driven by businesses too. Right? And so I talk about AI and hiring and and HR in general, it’s not supply chain. Right? If you think about supply chain AI is awesome.
It’s not hurting. There’s no ethical problems with moving a train from one place to another optimizing your freight or whatever, and more complicated things than that. But you move into people it gets a lot more complicated. Right? So companies are very hesitant right now. I don’t know if you guys get the temperature of what it’s like in your companies right now for for AI. I’d love to hear it. Actually, in fact, we gotta hear it. But what I would say is from my from my angle, what I see companies are still very reluctant to use any of this stuff in hiring. And so, well, the market’s not buying it,
Joe: you
Charles: know, there’s not a huge pressure to sell it. I think there’s other HR tech firms in the talent acquisition space that are that are selling all kinds of AI stuff to non IOs and and slipping it through maybe in the guys or not in the guys. That’s part of a bigger problem solving platform. So it’s not all AI all the time. Right?
But the the market will continue to make really cool stuff and it’ll get better and companies will slowly come around to, hey, we wanna use this because we’ve we understand the regulation environment, we understand all this stuff. I think that we’ve got a little bit of a ramp that’s happening till it really explodes. But as we close out here and finish things out, So AI obviously is huge. If you’re you listen to the taker or leave it segment, you’ll you heard us talking about it. And now I wanna ask you guys, you know, what are your company doing? What’s going on within the walls of your company that you’re hearing? About AI? Are you using it on your jobs? Are people debating about using it on your jobs? What do we need to know about it?
Joe: Yeah. Honestly, I’ll
Brandon: let you go first,
Joe: you know. Yeah. I don’t I don’t have much to say. I don’t I haven’t heard really the the whispers of AI at all or I don’t use it at my job. And my previous job I there’s this cool that I actually I think it’s easy yet, but but I heard the the HRS Oracle.
Yeah, as an AI for talent management that’s supposedly pretty cool and and pretty useful for for companies that use it. But I didn’t I I left before before they acquired Oracle. I was trying to get to touch it nor there wasn’t during dial management. But I don’t really use it in my my my day to day work. But personally, I I try to use it what I can, whether it’s for our podcast. We can use chat g p t to help come up with certain ideas. Yeah. I guess maybe when you’re in school, you could use it a little bit. But now that we’re just practitioners So I don’t use it as much.
Charles: You don’t use chat g t p are you allowed to use chat g t p on the job?
Joe: I probably wouldn’t use it on my work computer or, I mean, you definitely not put sensitive data. And it’s actually a sense, I know Apple just had their I mean, it was talking to Brandon about it. They just had their conference about their Yeah.
Charles: AI and how I know how about it.
Joe: And they’re integrating chatGPT and open AI, and they’re and they have their new was it iOS update? And that the discretion of data that will be privatized or will not be privatized anymore because now you send in queues to open AI to get that information back from their chat, EPT. Is that gonna be the same with, like, with work now? Or if they start really integrating AI and work? Like, where is that?
The privatization of data Mhmm. In house data department to play. I don’t know enough about that or if I’m even if that would even but so I kinda just stay away from it, but I don’t really have a need to use my job anyways.
Charles: Alright. And Brandon, tell me about your job and I and AI, chat g t p, can you use it?
Brandon: Yeah. It’s interesting. It’s I was gonna say the same thing about sensitive data. I think Joe probably has more sensitive data than I do being in comp and benefits. So I can toy around with it a little bit.
It definitely I I play around with chat GPT a lot in terms of sometimes just coming up with ideas or just getting a framework for something that I might need it it helps me get the ball rolling, and then I take it over the finish line. We do a lot of, like, AI automation, so we use, like, a software called ClickUp, which basically tracks the tasks that we’re working on. It’s like we use like a Kanban and That’s how we follow-up with a lot of things, but we use some AI automations in that software itself.
Joe: Mhmm.
Brandon: So that was a really cool tool just to, like, track productivity from an AI stance. And then I also utilized Fireflies AI, which is like a meeting notetaker. It was a it was a cool thing to use. I got pretty good at, like, siphoning through the b s because sometimes it there’s the hallucinations that AI can come up with, especially when it’s like analyzing the words and meetings and whatnot. But that was my exposure with AI in the workplace. I I really I think that I agree with Joe in terms of, like, the privacy space. I’m really interested to see where that conversation goes. And I think that when you are working, especially with other organizations, and, like, from a consulting side, capture GTBT, you have to be careful what information you feed it because, like, you are going to be handling a lot of client’s information from a lot of different sources that might not be private or might be private and you have to be sure that you’re aware of that whether that’s helping you draft up an email or helping you with a line of excel code, but it’s definitely something to think about when you’re doing that. But that’s really been my exposure. But we have conversations about using it more.
Because my boss is definitely more pro AI than he is against. So he’s, like, if there’s a way for us to do this, he’s, like, do some research and let me know. So it’s definitely something we look into. And I and I’m all for it too. So that’s where our space is.
Charles: Yeah. Super cool. I use Fireflies. It sits on all my meetings. I’ll tell you, I did a doing a project right now.
I interviewed, like, twenty IOs that work for major giant corporations that run assessment programs and I used fireflies and I took the idea was there’s also a mini experiment. We’d take all the fireflies transcripts and feed them to chat CTP after we anonymized them so that, you know, no information about what companies are doing was going in there. The first thing that happened with Fireflies is there was a lot of garbage in there. Like, some of them came out perfect and some of them were really, really, like, weird or they would just put one speaker in there. There’s some pretty funny, like, almost silly auto correct style words that were put in, you know, wrong that made you laugh really hard.
But Mhmm. The one thing that did happen, we started doing the data we have these different conditions like we we parsed out each respondent and each question response and put it in an excel sheet. You know, that we’re gonna feed to it. Gonna look at it ourselves. But the first thing we did was we fed twenty transcripts just straight into chat g t p and started asking it to look at the themes related to each question.
And I’m like, oh, we don’t actually need to do much more analysis because I can’t do any better than this thing that it’s absolutely incredible. For omni is just way better than than the other ones I’ve used. Anyway, I could talk about this stuff all day. We’ve already gone. I used usually go an hour.
I think it’s going over that because you guys are fun, man. This is awesome. A, you make me feel young. B, I have a lot of hope for I have a lot of hope for our profession. After talking to you guys.
And and I’m really happy that you made some time on a on a Friday evening. I know you probably got some cold beers waiting for you. I know I do. So Great. Thank you so much for your time and attention today.
Brandon: Yeah. Thank you so much for having us. We we’re fans of your show and We’re very appreciative that you would have us on here.
Charles: Yeah, my pleasure.